Host/Producer: Ezgi Toper
Guests: Dr. Abdel Malik Elnaeem, Mohammed Alfaki
Craft Editor: Nasrullah Yilmaz
Production Team: Afzal Ahmed, Ahmet Ziya Gumus, Mucteba Samil Olmez, Khaled Selim Executive Producer: Nasra Omar Bwana

TRANSCRIPT

JOURNALIST MOHAMMED ALFAKI: What we are seeing now, these terrible videos from Al Fasher. It is not new at all. It is a very old practices of this group RSF since the war broke in 2023.

But at that time the world didn't want to see this Why? This is a big question. Are they waiting for the RSF to finish the mission?

HOST EZGI TOPER: You’re listening to “In the Newsroom”, and I’m Ezgi Toper. In this podcast, we have conversations with colleagues and experts that go beyond the headlines.

If you're following the crisis in Sudan, you know the situation is already horrific. But on October 26, 2025, the war reached a dark turning point. The city of Al Fasher was captured by rebel forces called the Rapid Support Forces or the RSF. 

The capture of Al Fasher was followed by a wave of atrocities: mass killings, executions and rampant sexual violence, that has aid groups sounding the alarms. For this episode we’re asking: What is the significance of Al Fasher and what does its fall mean for the future of the conflict?

The paramilitary RSF has been locked in a war with government forces (the SAF) since April 15, 2023. As a result, tens of thousands of civilians have been killed and over 15 million people have been displaced. 

Prior to the capture of Al Fasher, the rebels had enforced a strict blockade on the city, allowing no food or aid inside. 

Our first guest, Dr. Abdel Malik Elnaeem, the Director of the Directorate of Communication and Information Office at the University of Khartoum and a former press adviser at the Sudanese Embassies in Cairo and Paris explains it further.

DR. ELNAEEM: The town of Al Fasher has been besieged for more than two years. There is the rebels, the militias have seized Al Fasher and prevent any products, any food, any medicines to enter to the citizen inside. The government of Sudan, in cooperation with the armed forces, exists a high effort to introduce relief convoy inside Al Fasher. But the rebels interrupted them. Many more than 25 convoys from Khartoum and from the town of Al Dabbah towards Al Fasher have been interrupted and not permitted to enter inside Al Fasher for the relief of the citizens. This is the situation. More than 255 attacks have been done from the rebels to Al Fasher.

The rebel force prepare themselves properly with the support of mercenaries, and attack Al Fasher from five sides and directions. So, the armed forces decided to withdraw in order firstly to protect the civilians. And secondly, to prepare themselves to come back again to attack them. 

EZGI: But, once the rebels captured Al Fasher, the reports and images were horrifying. Rather than the civilians being protected, they were assaulted, tortured and massacred. 

DR. ELNAEEM: When the rebels entered Al Fasher, the first thing they do: they assassinated more than 2,000 persons from the civilians. Among them, 470 persons from the patients and co-patients and the medical team inside the hospital. All of them have been completely assassinated and killed. 

SUDANESE WITNESS 1: We saw large numbers of dead people as well as injured people and those with amputated limps. If you went to the hospital, you’d be shocked. People are brought to the hospital in groups of 50, 60 or 70 injured at once.

SUDANESE WITNESS 2: We arrived in Al Fasher and found the city had fallen. And those who had goods with them were killed. About eight were killed right next to me.

DR. ELNAEEM: The crimes of the rebel is genocide. Crime of war and war violation. Everything you can imagine and something you cannot imagine. And all violations which considered in the national and international law as a crime of wars.

EZGI: The evidence of all these atrocities inside and around Al Fasher is actually provided by the RSF militants themselves. 

They have been sharing gruesome videos online, reportedly showing summary executions of mostly male civilians and ex-combatants, celebrating over dead bodies, and taunting and abusing people. 

The International Organisation for Migration, the IOM, estimates that at least 62,000 people fled Al Fasher and its surrounding area. But aid groups say the road out of Al Fasher towards Northern Darfur has become a “death road”, with everyone on it at risk of abuses by the RSF and starvation from lack of aid.

The international outrage that ensued from these reports and the RSF footage prompted a response by RSF leader Mohamed Hamdan Dagolo, known as "Hemetti".

DAGOLO: I also observed some violations that happened in Al Fasher. From this moment, I announce the formation of an investigation committee. It is not merely talks. Now our committees have arrived at Al Fasher.

EZGI: Hemetti admitted that violations had occurred by his forces in Al Fasher, claiming that investigation committees had been formed. 

But many human rights and aid organisations, such as the Sudan Doctors Network described the situation as “a true genocide”, linking the RSF crimes in Al Fasher to the systematic killing of 300,000 civilians in Darfur between 2003 to 2008.

TRT Arabi Executive Producer Mohammed Alfaki takes us back to that time when the Sudanese government sent a foreign militia group to Darfur to quell a growing rebellion.

MOHAMMED: Historically, Sudanese army before even independence of the Sudan when there was Britain in Sudan, they used to use militia if there is any domestic problems. So in 2003, the Sudanese government made a small group from this Arab tribes, mainly from Hemetti group — the leader of RSF now — and these people, they try to control the rebellion movements here in Darfur at that time. This force was very limited and it was under the control of the Sudanese army.

EZGI: But things soon spiralled out of control as this militia grew more powerful and more violent against the revolution. Back then this militia, armed and supported by the Sudanese government, was known as the janjaweed.

MOHAMMED: Janjaweed, it is not an Arabic word. It's an abbreviation of a jinn riding on on horse holding a gun of G3. So these three G's are Janjaweed. So people believe these are not people, this is a sort of jinn. This is something like ghosts. 

EZGI: These so-called ghosts were known for carrying out widespread atrocities in the region, including killings and rapes of civilians. And here’s the thing: They are the same group responsible for the current atrocities: the RSF formed under ousted President Omar al Bashir.

MOHAMMED: Unfortunately, after 2019, after al Bashir regime went away, the new government, under its umbrella, the RSF enlarged and its numbers reached more than 120,000 fighters. So it's a very huge number.

EZGI: Today, Darfur makes up about one-fifth of Sudan’s territory, but most of the country’s 50 million people live in army-held areas.

The RSF continues to gain traction. It now controls all five states in Darfur while the army controls most areas of the remaining 13 states in the rest of Sudan, including the capital Khartoum. 

There is a serious concern that the country could face a de facto partition, or that the conflict could spread further. We asked Dr. Elnaeem what can we expect next if things keep continuing at this pace:

DR. ELNAEEM: I'm not afraid of the extension of these rebels to other states of Sudan for many reasons. Firstly, the government now and the armed forces supported by the people and by all. They are prepared themselves properly to attack them (the rebels) by the airplane.

Secondly, dialogue is going now among the four-committee and America (the “Quad”). They want also to alleviate the situation by saying that “we are going towards peace through dialogue.” So, they can also do something towards those in order not to be extended in other areas.

Thirdly, there is an interior conflict between these rebels through tribes, through groups, and they are now in a battle, which is a lot. This also will do a negative aspect for the rebel to extend their attack other states.

So, I can conclude that in Sudan government and people are not afraid from the extension of this, and the government do a very high effort to stop them, but to liberate the Darfur region.

Al Fasher or the region of Darfur, it is economic, depends on many things. The exploitation of the minerals of petrol, of the agriculture, livestocks, all of these things are extended to many states in the country. Then it cannot be an independent region. Or with no regard the every other thing. The armed forces of Darfur itself, they are not declared any time the separation of Darfur region from Sudan. Because they know well that the economics of Darfur depends on the other states of Sudan for many reasons. So I'm not afraid of this.

I am also want to add that there is a movement, armed movement from Darfur itself, about 11-12. All of these they are against now the rebels for occupying Darfur region. So, they are also compact through their tribes by side and through their armed forces by other side to stop them (the rebels) and not to go far from this region.

EZGI: Okay, so, we’ve looked at the situation inside Sudan, now we turn to its place in the global context. What is Sudan’s current place in the world? 

DR. ELNAEEM: Sudan is a country which has a very good potential and then it has many to give to others. And it has many to give to take from others and exchange bilateral. The international relations is based now on the interest. It is not based on any other things. Interest, the common interest, can also push the situation of Sudan towards the world. What I can say at this point is that Sudan wants from the international community to put in exercise its laws. The laws which approved by the Security Council must be implemented on the case of Sudan: genocide, the crime of wars and war violations, killings, assassinations. All these are crimes. We just want to implement these laws from the international community and not want any others.

Sudan have more to give, and these countries also have more to protect the Sudan and also the African countries from this war, which can be extended to many other countries. Also, we have a call for the African Union, which, until now, freeze the membership of Sudan, in spite of all things done by Sudan. The African Union have a council of Security and Peace. This war can be extended to all Africa and threaten the African country. Then the African Union will be passive to do anything when this war has been extended.

EZGI: On November 6, the RSF said it had agreed to a humanitarian truce that was proposed by US-led mediator group the “Quad.” The group includes Egypt, Saudi Arabia, and the UAE.

But many observers argue that the conflict in Sudan is not a civil war, but a proxy war influenced by external powers. So, if outside powers are playing a role in fuelling the war should they also take part in building peace and stability?

DR. ELNAEEM: The Sudan have presented a very good report from 55 pages at Geneva to the UN Council of Human Rights. And in this report have put by image, by videos, by everything, all these violations and attacks against the people of Sudan.

I think the response, till now of more countries and of the international community towards the problem of Sudan is very weak and we need more support, support based on evidence. Now, the government in Port Sudan exert a very high effort firstly to secure the necessities and the needs of the Sudanese people who are now refugees and displaced inside the country and outside, and also to support the armed forces to liberate all the territory of Sudan. And also to find its way in the international community and international bodies and organisations to cast light on these crimes.

Now, the deputy of Sudan at the United Nations have presented yesterday a very good report, and he has put the points on letters directly accused all the countries who supported these rebels and declared the situation of the government of Sudan that she could not accept the conditions presented by the four committee by America and Emirate (The Quad). So, the situation in Port Sudan and in the government is very clear to all the world and just we need the support from the whole world and the international community.

EZGI: This current conflict dates back to April 15, 2023, but it feels like only recently more and more media attention is being brought to what's happening in Sudan. Why were people not speaking about what was happening in Sudan more when it was first happening and throughout this period?

DR. ELNAEEM: Yes, I think the policy of the international media, Arab media, African media, European media, international media, United States media, they did not want to focus on the crime happening in Sudan because they want this project to be completed completely and Sudan will be dominated completely by a foreign forces.

EZGI: Mohammad echoes this sentiment that the world ignored the suffering of Sudanese and confirms that the horrific acts now gaining attention are part of a long-established, brutal pattern.

MOHAMMED: By the way, what we are seeing now, these terrible videos from Al Fasher, it is not new at all. It is a very old practices of this group RSF since the war broke in 2023. That is why more than 13 million Sudanese fed out from their houses and displaced and been refugees out in Sudan in countries like Egypt. Most of the Sudanese there.

Why they escaped? Because there was killing, there was rape. Even in Khartoum town, even in Al Jazirah town, and this very terrible and horrible videos we have seen it in Wad An Nora, it's a small village in Al Jazirah region. They killed more than 200 people in one night. And, in any place RSF controlled or captured, it looted the houses, it killed the people. But at that time, the world didn't want to see this. But there is a lot of reports been presented to the human rights commissioner in the United Nations. But nobody wants to see this. Why this is a big question. Are they waiting for the RSF to finish the mission? Is there any project in Sudan for demographic change?

And now after Khartoum, the capital, has been returned by the Sudanese army, it is very difficult for the Sudanese people to go back. Why? Because everything has been destroyed. There is no water, there is no electricity and the houses of the people has been looted. And even those who are trying to return back, they couldn't and they're facing a lot of problems.

EZGI: What Mohammed describes is the physical destruction Sudanese civilians have endured: homes looted, towns razed, millions displaced. 

But beyond the loss of life and livelihood, the war has also deeply shaken a sense of identity, especially among the country’s youth. For many young Sudanese, this conflict is not just about territory or politics, it’s about the very existence and future of their nation, as Dr. Elnaeem explains.

How is young Sudanese viewing what's happening in their country?

DR. ELNAEEM: Nowadays they discovered that this attack is an attack from our side against the identity of Sudan. It’s presence and not a war against the armed forces or against that political party or other. Because now the Sudanese have been displaced refugees, and they lose even their studies at the university because of this very bad war. So, now our lectures, our lessons to them, is that this attack is not for a political party or for a government or for the armed forces. It is for the Sudan as a country.

The rebels, who are supported from all these countries, from more than 17 African countries and those mercenaries from Colombia, from Yemen, from many other countries, they have come to annihilate Sudan from the international map — of the map of Africa. So, they have a very good awareness that this war is against them. Against their presence and now they are supporting the armed forces.

The last word which I want to share is a call to international media, to international community, to look to what happened in Sudan as crime against human rights, against humanity, genocide, war, violation. It is not a matter of a war between two armed forces. It is a rebel against a legitimate government supported by the people.

Then, my call to the international media to focus on this crime. My call to the international community is to look to this crime as crime of humanity, to classify the rebel as a terrorist organisation, to punish them, to put all things which can protect the civilians in Sudan and all over the country. The message is very important to look for Sudan as a country fully independent with the people who have a right to live peacefully.

EZGI: Thank you so much for your time. Thank you for being on the show with me.

ABDEL: Thank you.

EZGI: As Dr. Elnaeem outlined, the fall of Al Fasher is less about immediate secession and more about solidifying the RSF’s control, raising fears of an ethnically-driven campaign that threatens Sudan as a unified nation. 

Reports of atrocities have intensified calls for an independent investigation and renewed criticism of the international community’s inaction.

Thanks for tuning in. Until next time, I’m Ezgi Toper, and this was “In the Newsroom”.