81-year-old Jewish activist fights Zionism in the US, one arrest at a time

Israel’s monthslong bombing campaign in Gaza has sparked protests around the world.

In the United States, some of the loudest calls for a ceasefire have come from Jewish Voice for Peace (JVP), a non-profit group founded in 1996 that describes itself as “the largest progressive Jewish anti-Zionist organization in the world.”

Among its most stalwart members is Rosalind Petchesky, an 81-year-old New Yorker and retired professor. Petchesky was awarded a MacArthur Fellowship (the “genius grant”) in 1995 and is a prolific author. Her latest book, A Land With A People: Palestinians and Jews Confront Zionism, was published in 2021.

Petchesky recently sat down with TRT World to discuss why she’s spending her golden years protesting against Israel, what it’s like to get arrested multiple times and how she hopes more Americans gather the courage to speak up against genocide.

TRT World: Let’s start with an easy question. How many times have you been arrested?

Rosalind Petchesky: Three. But, you know, I always tell people you've got to put “arrest” in quotes because there's a whole protocol and culture of arresting in New York.

These cops don't like to arrest old white ladies. There's a gender, age, class and race thing going on. And the first time they wouldn't arrest me. I was in Grand Army Plaza in Brooklyn. I had just come in from a trip. The (conflict in Gaza) had just broken out. It was October 13th and my organisation Jewish Voice for Peace was going to do civil disobedience in Grand Army Plaza, and then march to Senator (Chuck) Schumer's home, which is right near there. We do that often.

And we sat down in the street, a cop came, tried to pull me up, pulled me up. I thought, okay, now I'm gonna get arrested. And then he just left me. And I sat back down, another cop came, a woman, and she pulled me up and I thought, now she'll arrest me. No.

She said, would you like to go sit on that bench over there, treating me like a little feeble old lady. Oh my God. And it was very infuriating because it was my purpose to get arrested. All my friends were getting arrested. They were being pulled onto a cop bus. So I pretended I had my handcuffed behind my back. And I walked into the bus with everybody else. So literally I arrested myself. But they did give me a ticket. So officially I was arrested.

The second time we were in Grand Central Station and I was officially arrested there, but I had to work at it. I mean, they didn't want to. (The cop) said, “you have a cane.” I said, “here, you take my cane.”

And the third time was when 18 of us Jewish elderly women chained ourselves to the White House fence. Again, they came, they were so quiet. They were so polite. They said, all right, we have these cutters. We're gonna cut off the chains, and we're gonna take you over to this little van and give you a ticket. And I still have that ticket. I can show it to you. It just says we put something on the fence that we weren't supposed to. And I don't think we're ever gonna hear from them again. No. So, I don't know if you'd call that an arrest.

TRT World: It seemed symbolic to me. You're saying you wanted to get arrested. What is your motivation for that?

Ros Petchesky: It is symbolic. And I don't think it's any great risk. Now, I realise it isn't. But it is a way of making a statement. And I felt strongly that I, as an elderly woman who is retired, who no longer has any children or dependents at home, it's my responsibility.

It's my responsibility to speak out with my body and my voice as much as I possibly can to try to stop this madness, this genocide. So I'm all in to do that. And I guess it's easier now when I have learned that they're not gonna put me in jail for any extended time. I'm not gonna get beaten or anything like that. So thank you very much for that privilege. I will use it.

TRT World: And do you think that it's making a difference? It feel like things are just getting worse. We have 22,000 people killed now, funded by US tax dollars.

Ros Petchesky: Absolutely. We all feel that way. And in JVP we're in anguish. We've done so much. We've done everything we can do. We shut down eight bridges across the country. (We’ve protested at) the largest train station in America.

We've been out there. We've been lobbying. We've been, you know, working with the handful of sympathetic people in Congress to push for an immediate ceasefire, which is the least thing you could imagine. How could anyone object to a ceasefire? What is wrong with these people? And still, it goes on.

There's very little food. There's no medical anything. And it just goes on. And so I agree with you. But one can't give into despair. We just cannot give into despair, and we have to keep fighting. So JVP is gonna escalate up, we are really gonna go after the culprits here in the US.

TRT World: As far as the American people, we know the culprits in the leadership, but what do you think people are missing? Like, why is this message not getting through to the mainstream that these people are being killed?

Ros Petchesky: To answer your first question, I think a lot of people do see it partially. They see it, they can't avoid it, but they would like to avoid it. I think that people are worried about a lot of things. They're worried about the climate, they're worried about the economy, even though supposedly it's good. There's a lot to create anxiety. And then we have this horrible election coming up. So there's a lot that's distracting people.

But also, there's something deep, and I think about this a lot in terms of my own immediate family, to be honest. Why can't they feel what I feel? And in part, it's because they are privileged.

They have a wonderful, nice life. They don't, they almost can't stand to be pulled into a very negative, terrible situation. They want to continue to enjoy their life. I mean, I'm talking about teenagers and adults who I love with all my heart, but they aren't me.

They aren't ignorant. They're very smart. They know what's happening, but they just aren't ready to take it on into their hearts. And so they aren't going to do anything. And that's just for me, very hard. I think a lot of people are like that. I think a lot of people don't want to see.

TRT World: It's almost more than they feel like they could bear or change by themselves. And I wonder if historically that's how things have always been. Like with the Civil Rights movement. It took a certain tipping point to get more people on board, right?

Ros Petchesky: Yes. People have to feel. It affects them in some way. And even as much as you say, “this is your tax money, this is your dollars. What, you want your tax dollars to go to massacres and genocide and war and weapons?” And they will agree with you, but how far are they willing to go? I don't know. I mean, what's the tipping point here? I think we're going have to pay attention to electoral politics.

TRT World: And in terms of your family, what has their reaction been to you getting arrested and putting yourself out there?

Ros Petchesky: Well, it's a mixture. In some ways I think they're proud of me and they aren't against what I do, but they don't agree with all the things I say. Al Jazeera English had a long interview that was hard for my son, and he didn't agree. And I said, what's wrong? Are you embarrassed? And he said, I disagree with certain things.

So this is a conversation. JVP and my dear friend Esther Farmer, who’s one of the co-editors of A Land With a People, has developed a marvellous practice called Hard Conversations. And it's very simple, but it's very brilliant. There's certain people you cannot talk to, but the people you're close to and in your own family, you must talk to.

And I believe in communication. I don't believe in shutting things down and saying, we can't talk about this. If there's really love and respect, you can talk about anything, but you have to do it in a way that leaves openings to people. It doesn't shut them down. And so Esther's practice is to say, look for that opening, look for that offering.

For example, a Jewish person says to you, “I will support Israel forever and ever. I am committed to Israel. I hate Netanyahu. And those guys, they're really horrible. They're bringing Israel down.”

So then there's the offering. And you say, “oh, really? Well, why do you hate Netanyahu?” And you bring them out. So we're trying to instil this training into our members and further it because if we can't talk to people in this country, then they won't change. And nothing will change. It's this country that has the power. I mean, I don't know what you do with your family, how you get them to be active.

TRT World: Definitely I have (relatives) who say “I can't say anything, or I will lose my job and my livelihood.” And (they’re) not feeling brave.

Ros Petchesky: One has to be sensitive to people's situations. And that's what I think of the Zionist power structure and the media and the neo-McCarthyite ethos on college and university campuses. And really everywhere - it’s created a politics of fear. So people are just afraid to speak out. They're afraid, you know, of the consequences. And the consequences can be real and they can be harsh.

But there's not a lot of courage amongst Americans, in my opinion. The idea of political courage and stepping out, going out on a limb. I mean, the Rashida Tlaibs and the Cory Bushes are so rare, and they're very courageous. What makes a person like that? I know about myself, why I would go and get arrested and do it. I mean, I have a particular history, but it's rare.

TRT World: Can you share some of that history?

Ros Petchesky: Oh, well, I first went to Israel when I was 16 years old. The stories in the book (A Land With a People). I was a young Jewish girl in Oklahoma. I was very involved with the B’nai B’rith Youth. And they had these trips to Israel. And I wanted to go. And I was so excited.

And I think in those days, I don't think they paid for us. I think our parents had to pay. And I went on this trip, and I thought, oh, Israel, I've always wanted to come. And my grandmother went many decades ago, and I'm going now. And my father was very devoted by Zionist as well. And it was also the beginning of the Civil Rights movement. And I was getting very involved in the Civil Rights movement in my little way locally. And (in Israel) I witnessed blatant racism.

And this was not against Palestinians, because they wouldn't allow us to even know that Palestinians existed. We were shut off from them. We were only taken to Jewish areas.

But this was on a kibbutz. And I was talking to a dark-skinned guy. He was African, he was probably from Yemen. And I'm just talking to this guy, and he was very nice. And a woman came up to me. She had a very distinct Brooklyn accent - a white American woman, Jewish. And she said, “don't talk to him.” And I said, “why?” And she said, “he's African.”

And I was just floored. I couldn't believe it. I thought, no, my Judaism doesn't teach that. That's not what we were, we believed in brotherhood, you know, justice for all. It was such a shock. And when I came home to Tulsa and I was talking to various little gatherings, and one of them was with a conservative rabbi and my grandparents and some other elderly people.

And I'm just telling the story. And the woman got very upset. She wrote to the rabbi, the rabbi wrote to her, and he sent me a copy of the letter. And he said, “she's just a young girl. She doesn't know what she's talking about. I was just there. It's not true.”

And there it was. So there I was launched into a lifetime of radical activism, feminism, because I was a girl. And I was young and my anti-racist feminism and anti-Zionism all were born at the same moment. And in college, my mentor was a fabulous Palestinian intellectual named Ibrahim Abu-Lughod. He was a very amazing person. And he taught me international law and human rights law. And later when I taught at Hunter College, my best students were Palestinian women. And they became my friends for life.

And then later I joined Jewish Voice for Peace in about 2013. And when you have that kind of backup and that kind of community, you want to be brave because you have something really important to fight for. I mean, my mother was a typical housewife and she had four sons and me. And she put me on a train all by myself when I was five years old to go to another state. I always travelled and I always went places. And I never was afraid. And I think she helped instil that in me.

And then the most important thing is having a community, being part of a collective effort. Because otherwise by yourself alone, you can't do anything. So at least you feel you're struggling together.

All of JVP is in a similar state of anguish, feeling like we have done so much. And it's (only gotten) worse. It's horrible. What are we missing? Well, we're gonna have a convening and we're going to strategise, and we're going to move this to another level and figure out what more we can do.

TRT World: You were in academia for so long. What's your take on the resignation of Harvard President Claudine Gay?

Ros Petchesky: Well, unfortunately, what I would call Zionists donors and power centres have had a tremendous influence over college and university administrations. We've seen it for years and with this new McCarthyism is all over the country.

It's interesting that Harvard, and I don't know much about President Gay who's no longer the Harvard president. Because she resigned. The pressure she must have been under was just unimaginable. But she was under that pressure long before the testimony in Congress (about anti semitism on college campuses).

(Critics) obviously didn't like the idea of a liberal Black woman being president of Harvard. There were people who really couldn't live with that. And whatever she did, in terms of plagiarism, it sounds like it was pretty bad. But on the other hand, I'm trying to imagine a young black PhD candidate who's trying desperately in the cutthroat world of academia as it is now, desperate to try to get her doctorate to get a job, to get a promotion.

I had a very privileged academic career. Unbelievable. I never faced any of that. I did what I wanted. I taught what I wanted. When I retired from teaching 10 years ago, my biggest thought was that it’s gone. Even the incredible pension and health benefits I have - that’s gone. My young counterparts, my graduate students, they're facing a very different world. So the pressures of that world are terrible.

And (Gay) managed to withstand that. I think that the climate is really corrupting all of academia. It's hideous and it's tragic and embarrassing. The extent to which Zionism is playing a role, a big role, and becoming the weapon. And anti-Semitism has become weaponised on college and university campuses. I was one of the people doxxed, my picture was on a truck parked near Hunter College. And they said, CUNY (The City University of New York)’s worst anti-Semites or something like that.

For young people, for students and young adjunct and part-time faculty. That can be just disastrous for somebody like them. It makes me a little nervous about who might follow me home or find out where I live. But college and university administrations are not doing anything about it. They're allowing that to happen on their campuses. It's the worst violation of academic freedom and free speech. It's defamation and it's got to be illegal. And they should be taking legal action against it.

And we know who funds it. They're very well-known right wing donors. And they don't even care about antisemitism. They care about stopping environmental movements, oil and gas and putting a clamp on student activism, because they see that as a very strong source of opposition to what they do and care about. So I'm very happy not to be in academia anymore.